Have your say & ask the experts

I am confused, very.

Courtesy of Ashley James I listened to the new ADM's which he very kindly demonstrated in his home after showing us the distribution part of AVI.

I recently listened to the original 9's at darren's (who's opinions and knowledge are missing on this forum) and again had them for direct comparison at Ashley's place. - The one bugbear I had with them was a very lean bass and slight lack of 'emotion' the upshot of which was tremendous transients, clarity and openness.

Well, the successors are more open and clear as the air on a (very) frosty morning. EVERYTHING is laid bare and that treble ... amazing, at any volume, even one that approaches live music levels courtesy of those powerful amp modules ...

... but ... I'm still not totally sure if I could live with the 9.1s permanently even though I'm coming slowly around to the fact that I probably could. You see, for all the 'realism' (read ... 'as the sound engineer intended') a lot of recordings are shall we say 'compromised' just to be kind. Unless the recording is good such as some jazz we listened to, the result can be brutally brittle and flat sounding. Not a fault of the speakers just a sad reflection on how often engineers downmix sound to sound 'good' on your average midi system or whatever.

We then listened to the original 9's with one of AVI's subs which went some way to restore a little warmth and obviously add some bass and slam. But it also interfered with the transparency and speed of the sound. In all fairness, it was set up more as a movie system than hifi though.

So they dont always make for comfortable listening where you just want to be emerged in music though they can easily do that given a decent recording and they still lack (to me) a certain 'loudness' especially at lower levels which happens to be where a lot of my listening takes place but for a near live presentation at volumes capable of rattling floors (without sub) they are amazing. I simply have never heard a system that would come close in that respect for that money or even 2.5 times as much!

Just my original doubts hold me back to buy them immediately. Perhaps I like a bit of distortion/clipping/inability of an amp to completely control drive units ...  a bit of warmth. I dont know.

But, and I think this is important, listening to normal (passive) speakers after the AVI's  is severly flawed now. I feel like I can only hear some of the detail, bass is slower and I miss the amazing transparency. I will audition some more stuff this afternoon but I am confused.

Perhaps an AVI active floorstander with modular pre-amp (or upgradeable DAC) would come close to the perfect coned speaker system even though it bump the price up and does'nt fit into the 'life style' product range of compact tiny speakers. It would probably destroy the market for amp/speaker combinations for many thousands of pounds but as with the 9.1's, many dealers would be reluctant to stock/sell them simply because there's no possibility to cash in on selling 'upgrades' on the piggyback of the product not least because of the incredible reliability that comes with it.

Again, many thanks to AJ of AVI, a very passionate and helpful man with a love for classic cars.

Very interesting indeed - thanks for sharing, Drummerman. Can't wait to hear the speakers myself (Ashley?)

Never mind that, where are the Neutron Vs (with amp/dac/sub module).........?

Nice read, I was about to give the ADM 9.1 a try for Ashley's convincing belief in them.

Currently an ATC and Dynaudio user. Maybe What Hi-fi can review the speakers and update us if the latest model ADM9.1 is above par of the active ATCs or Dynaudio's MC15 or PMC DB1-A etc.

 A shootout of active speakers for once would be a nice innovative approach to impart wisdom to audiophiles who wish to engage in the active speaker/monitor arena.

I am planning to use GBP1k+ on speakers, should I consider

Spendor's new SA1 + amp?
ProAc Ref 8 Sig + amp?
Harbeth Compact 7-ES3 +amp?
PMC DB1-A?
AVI ADM9.1?
PMC DB1i + amp?

Room is small 3m x 4m average. Using ATC SCM11 with Naim Nait 5i-2, sometimes i use Rotel RA-1062(spare), and have another NAD C352 (stored up from earlier days). None of them big watters but I am aiming for musicality not muscle and superb neutrality/flatness.

Hope someone who has heard them can advise if the ADM9.1 are in anyway musical at all, or just another ruler flat transducer like the ATC?

And just how much ahead is the ADM9.1 ahead of the Audioengine A5 in terms of musical presentation?

 Cheers
 

drummerman:

I am confused, very.

Courtesy of Ashley James I listened to the new ADM's which he very kindly demonstrated in his home after showing us the distribution part of AVI.

I recently listened to the original 9's at darren's (who's opinions and knowledge are missing on this forum) and again had them for direct comparison at Ashley's place. - The one bugbear I had with them was a very lean bass and slight lack of 'emotion' the upshot of which was tremendous transients, clarity and openness.

Well, the successors are more open and clear as the air on a (very) frosty morning. EVERYTHING is laid bare and that treble ... amazing, at any volume, even one that approaches live music levels courtesy of those powerful amp modules ...

... but ... I'm still not totally sure if I could live with the 9.1s permanently even though I'm coming slowly around to the fact that I probably could. You see, for all the 'realism' (read ... 'as the sound engineer intended') a lot of recordings are shall we say 'compromised' just to be kind. Unless the recording is good such as some jazz we listened to, the result can be brutally brittle and flat sounding. Not a fault of the speakers just a sad reflection on how often engineers downmix sound to sound 'good' on your average midi system or whatever.

We then listened to the original 9's with one of AVI's subs which went some way to restore a little warmth and obviously add some bass and slam. But it also interfered with the transparency and speed of the sound. In all fairness, it was set up more as a movie system than hifi though.

So they dont always make for comfortable listening where you just want to be emerged in music though they can easily do that given a decent recording and they still lack (to me) a certain 'loudness' especially at lower levels which happens to be where a lot of my listening takes place but for a near live presentation at volumes capable of rattling floors (without sub) they are amazing. I simply have never heard a system that would come close in that respect for that money or even 2.5 times as much!

Just my original doubts hold me back to buy them immediately. Perhaps I like a bit of distortion/clipping/inability of an amp to completely control drive units ...  a bit of warmth. I dont know.

But, and I think this is important, listening to normal (passive) speakers after the AVI's  is severly flawed now. I feel like I can only hear some of the detail, bass is slower and I miss the amazing transparency. I will audition some more stuff this afternoon but I am confused.

Perhaps an AVI active floorstander with modular pre-amp (or upgradeable DAC) would come close to the perfect coned speaker system even though it bump the price up and does'nt fit into the 'life style' product range of compact tiny speakers. It would probably destroy the market for amp/speaker combinations for many thousands of pounds but as with the 9.1's, many dealers would be reluctant to stock/sell them simply because there's no possibility to cash in on selling 'upgrades' on the piggyback of the product not least because of the incredible reliability that comes with it.

Again, many thanks to AJ of AVI, a very passionate and helpful man with a love for classic
cars.

Thanks DM. Really good read. I can see how the active crossover would provide awesome detail in the treble given the inherent 'limitations of a passive crossover' but the awesome transparency you heard with the ADM9.1's i'm sure could be achieved easily with a suitably proficient preamp (although at much higher cost possibly). Also Biamping (whether vertical ot horizontal) i'm sure would bring that level of detail, although it still has to go through the passive crossover, it works. I'm not sure if distortion of a passive xover is the reason for a 'warmer' sound though as amps have varying degrees of brightness/neutrality/warmth anyway. I'd like to see if other manufacturers can make 'warmer' sounding active speakers. Hmmmmmm food for thought. Cheers DM

Omegaminx:

rNice read, I was about to give the ADM 9.1 a try for Ashley's convincing belief in them.

Maybe What Hi-fi can review the speakers and update us if the latest model ADM9.1 is above par of the active ATCs or Dynaudio's MC15 or PMC DB1-A etc.

 A shootout of active speakers for once would be a nice innovative approach to impart wisdom to audiophiles who wish to engage in the active speaker/monitor arena.

Do any of the other models mentioned have a built in DAC?

If Ashley does pop in to this thread could I ask if the eview linked to on the ADM9.1 product webpage is accurate about the function of the USB connection, when it says the port can also pass signals back to your computer from analogue sources connected to the ADM9.

This, if true, would make an ADM9.1/PC/Mac/Turntable based system incredibly versatile requiring only the addition of a phono stage. However I only see 'input' written next to the USB so I have my doubts. Ashley can clarify this point I hope.

Thanks. (Sorry to hijack this a bit but it is all relevant to the ADM9.1 topic)

 

Perhaps you should email avi about the question and get back to us regarding the reply ;)

Ashley is very quick to reply emails and he writes an elaborate one where indicated.

I would just like to know if anyone who has heard the new ADM9.1 find it not as musical as the Spendor-Harbeth-Sonus Faber genre?

Are there any drawbacks in getting this new 9.1? All the reviews before this were for the older ADM9....

Oh btw, I use ATC SCM11 and Dynaudio 52 as computer speakers as I only have time to listen to music while playing the PC.

The future mass would be doing that very soon, that's why I am quite interested in something like the ADM9.1, but would lose the flexibility of tweaking the pre/power amps around cables of course!  

Cheers
 

Drummerman, I appreciate your very accurate assessment of the ADM9s and 9.1s but would emphasise the much of the difference you heard between the two was room acoustics. In the TV room there's a lot more middle and high frequency absorption taking place because there's more clutter, so the speakers sound mellower.

The new model is better because we've used experience to judge the market and re-designed to meet the requirement. The early ones had more gain (and distortion) so that they'd play loud enough with volume restricted iPods and other PMPs. It turns out most people prefer the computer, a Mac especially or a streaming device as a source.

We've discontinued the USB version because of lack of demand and because any Apple computer (probably PCs too but possibly not so good) has a 24/192 input if needed for recording old analogue material.

The biggest differences in hi fi are in loudspeakers and the rooms they are played in and the difference between ADM9.1s and any other speaker is substantial. Therefore it's not surprising that anyone considering them should be apprehensive lest, for some reason they cannot live with them.

The simplest explanation is that they are substantially less distorted than a conventional hi fi system with passive speakers so that you are getting much closer to the music than was possible before. The biggest and easiest difference to describe is the crossover. ADM9.1s have steeper and more accurate filters than is possible in passive speakers and so are virtually inaudible. Passive crossovers are surprisingly intrusive as are many active ones, but we were lucky in getting an opportunity to have special drive units designed for us (provided we bought a huge quantity) by the company that designed the ones for Bentley. The ex chief engineer of Scanspeak is working there now I'm told. This has enabled us to do more than was possible with older Active designs.


Can you live with them?

Distortion almost always confuses the sound and harshens it and although astonishingly clear ADM9.1s do the opposite because they have less distortion than older and less advanced designs. I think the testimonials on our website and the many others that I receive almost daily are proof of an astonishingly high level of customer satisfaction and I do not doubt that these speakers are the future of high quality sound reproduction.

I hope you buy a pair Drummerman and that you report back to this Forum either way. I'm betting you'll be as happy as a dog with additional appendages.

I hope this answers all the questions and avoids a ban for advertising!

Ash

Ash, it hasn't answered my repeated question on when our review sample will be arriving?

Never mind that, I'd like to know where the digital input is on my iMac.........

I probably should have explained that in an Active loudspeaker the Amplifiers are connected directly to the drive units so that control is considerably better. A loudspeaker is also an electrical generator, so if you push the cone backwards and forwards a voltage will appear at the speaker terminals. If the terminals are joined together (shorted) the load applied to the generator is much greater and the cone is far more difficult to move.
Passive crossover components are quite resistive and reduce this affect so that the cone can "overshoot and overhang", increasing perceived bass and blurring the mid band as Drummerman has described.

It's important to understand that our hearing increases in sensitivity with frequency and its accepted that our ears are most sensitive from about 300 Hz- 6 kHz, which means this is the most important part of the listening experience. However, because we are used to old soft and wooly sounds, we inevitably worry when they are gone. We always warn people of this and about 30% buy the Subwoofer. The important thing is that I believe that we may have 100% customer satisfaction and I don't think many would claim that.

Believe it or not, there is absolutely no reduction in measured bass because what you get from passive system is time related distortion rather than more volume. Once you adjust you find that there is more detail and more punch to it, that's all.

I'm sorry to keep on but there's an awful lot of technology in ADM9.1s and it takes some thinking about.

Ash

JohnDuncan:

Never mind that, I'd like to know where the digital input is on my iMac.........

And never mind me, found it. though doesn't really help me record analogue sources, of course....

So, Ash, you have time to write yet another lengthy missive about how brilliant your products are, but still no answer to my very simple request....

Hi Ash. You obviously think very highly of your product as do many others. Can I ask, What features of the speaker do you think could be improved upon, especially in terms of the amplifier, driver units. What I'm trying to get my head around is that the main diferences in quality of hifi components can be accounted for by the quality and cost of components. Surely the same would apply to the electrical components you use in your speakers. Assuming this is the case, and that you have not built them with a 'money no object' approach, there must be some inherent compromise. Where are these compromises that may be improved upon in a 'higher end' model??